Acceleration

[Alfettaman47]

With my Prelude past 600 miles and the oil changed, I tried an acceleration run today. Dry conditions, 18 deg.C, gentle breeze, Sport mode, S+ off.

0-60mph took 6.9 seconds, but I think I should have brake-torqued it for a little bit longer before releasing the brake. Also, the HV battery was only showing about 30% charge, so it will be interesting to see whether a more fully charged battery gives a better result. This launch mode is clearly programmed into the power train, because the petrol engine went straight to full power and stayed there - with no synthetic gear changes. Launch the car normally (just by flooring the accelerator without brake-torquing) and the gear changes are evident.

Not too bad for a first attempt and certainly quicker than the 8.2 seconds that Honda (very conservatively) claim. The internet seems to have fixated on this 8.2 sec figure, and most reviewers don't seem to know how to launch the Prelude correctly anyway...

 

[PR76UDE43]

Shouldn't be surprising to anyone paying attention. It's a slipperier civic for the purpose of such things so should at least match it. The gears/no-gears thing seems to be kinda like you've said, though it's more that if you're rolling at all it triggers the 'fake gears'. Try it with brake hold on, curious to see if that triggers it or not. Odd that they don't really document it anywhere. But also doubly odd that Honda logged their official time using S+, why give people ammo to complain? If anything the most baffling thing about this car is the way it was presented. It's not really a CVT, and it's not a 8.2s car either, it's far better on both points.

 

[Alfettaman47]

Shouldn't be surprising to anyone paying attention. It's a slipperier civic for the purpose of such things so should at least match it. The gears/no-gears thing seems to be kinda like you've said, though it's more that if you're rolling at all it triggers the 'fake gears'. Try it with brake hold on, curious to see if that triggers it or not. Odd that they don't really document it anywhere. But also doubly odd that Honda logged their official time using S+, why give people ammo to complain? If anything the most baffling thing about this car is the way it was presented. It's not really a CVT, and it's not a 8.2s car either, it's far better on both points.

Yes, I'll try launching from a brake-hold stop and see if it does the 'fake gears' thing.

A family friend (and fellow petrolhead) works for a big insurance company and I asked him why Honda would publish such a pessimistic 0-60 time. He said that some manufacturers do this with completely new car models, in the hope of lowering the initial 'risk premium'. Later on, when the insurers have got some real accident data and claims statistics, premiums can be more accurately based on those and less on the published performance data.

But, as you say (and whatever the reason), it plays right into the hands of most reviewers, journalists, nay-sayers and armchair test pilots...

 

[Alfettaman47]

....and perhaps there is some honesty with the 8.2s 0-60mph time, because significantly faster times are only available if you know how to configure the car correctly (Sport on, S+ off, brake-torquing).

 

[PR76UDE43]

Thinking about it I don't reckon brake-torquing will make any difference? At least in theory it shouldn't, with the electric motor doing all the work with instant torque etc... Sounds like you need to do some more launches, for science.

 

[Alfettaman47]

Thinking about it I don't reckon brake-torquing will make any difference? At least in theory it shouldn't, with the electric motor doing all the work with instant torque etc... Sounds like you need to do some more launches, for science.

I think the drive motor in our cars is a permanent magnet synchronous motor. If so, it is technically possible to control the zero-speed torque (to hold the rotor stationary against an external force or resistance) by managing the current in the stator.

Theoretically this could create extra rotational energy when the external load (in our case, the brakes) is suddenly removed. But I have no idea if the Prelude's drive motor is managed in this way.

As you say, more testing required...

 

[Liverfluke2]

Yes, I'll try launching from a brake-hold stop and see if it does the 'fake gears' thing.

A family friend (and fellow petrolhead) works for a big insurance company and I asked him why Honda would publish such a pessimistic 0-60 time. He said that some manufacturers do this with completely new car models, in the hope of lowering the initial 'risk premium'. Later on, when the insurers have got some real accident data and claims statistics, premiums can be more accurately based on those and less on the published performance data.

But, as you say (and whatever the reason), it plays right into the hands of most reviewers, journalists, nay-sayers and armchair test pilots...

That’s an interesting point about insurance.
I was pleasantly surprised to find I could insure my Prelude for a few pounds less than my previous car, a 13 year old 2.5 litre Volvo C70.

 

[Alfettaman47]

That’s an interesting point about insurance.
I was pleasantly surprised to find I could insure my Prelude for a few pounds less than my previous car, a 13 year old 2.5 litre Volvo C70.

Likewise: my new Prelude is only costing me an extra £50 to insure, compared to my 2013 (non-turbo) Hyundai Veloster. So maybe we should be grateful to Honda for understating the performance - and for fitting those impractical rear seats too. Four-seater cars in general are a better insurance risk than two-seaters!

 

[Alfettaman47]

Thinking about it I don't reckon brake-torquing will make any difference? At least in theory it shouldn't, with the electric motor doing all the work with instant torque etc... Sounds like you need to do some more launches, for science.

OK, here are the results of a couple more launches on a smooth, straight, level and very quiet road, no wind, 18 deg.C

First one was to answer the question "If you launch the car from a brake-hold stop (but without using the brake pedal to brake-torque the launch), does the car do fake gear changes?"

The answer is yes, it did simulated gear changes. This run was in Sport mode, S+ off, brake hold on, no brake-torquing....

Simulated gear changes all the way, and the expected 0-60mph time of 8 secs...

 

[Alfettaman47]

...the next run was in Sport mode, S+ off, fully brake-torqued....

No fake gear changes this time, and a significantly faster 0-60 mph time of 6.5 secs.

 

[PR76UDE43]

Interesting so it definitely does have some kinda sorta-launch-control logic somewhere in its brain?

Next up you've gotta try adding in the traction control variable!

 

[Alex_Waverley26]

I did a run from York, PA to Virginia Beach and back this weekend (Interstates all the way). I was able to surf the traffic on the "95's" with no problem at all.

The Prelude wasn't as quick or as snappy as my BRZ but it was still very impressive. And unlike a road trip in the BRZ we completed the trip with all of our fillings still in our teeth and we did not require spinal adjustment or hearing aids upon our return home. It was six hours down and five hours back (non-stop both ways).

It's not a sports car. It's a GT. And it is a damned good one. Not only is it fun to drive, it is comfortable. The driving assist features are effective but not intrusive, the electronics work flawlessly, and people hang beside you just to get a look (I have yet to see another one). We got gas at a BP station and two other patrons approached me during the fill-up to ask about the car and another stopped to take pictures .

My wife is over the moon about her Prelude and now that I have had some extended seat time so am I.

Anyone that doesn't like the new Prelude has never driven one.

Oh, and we averaged 50 mpg on regular gas. Five-zero. As opposed to less that half that on premium in the BRZ.

 

[Alfettaman47]

I did a run from York, PA to Virginia Beach and back this weekend (Interstates all the way). I was able to surf the traffic on the "95's" with no problem at all.

The Prelude wasn't as quick or as snappy as my BRZ but it was still very impressive. And unlike a road trip in the BRZ we completed the trip with all of our fillings still in our teeth and we did not require spinal adjustment or hearing aids upon our return home. It was six hours down and five hours back (non-stop both ways).

It's not a sports car. It's a GT. And it is a damned good one. Not only is it fun to drive, it is comfortable. The driving assist features are effective but not intrusive, the electronics work flawlessly, and people hang beside you just to get a look (I have yet to see another one). We got gas at a BP station and two other patrons approached me during the fill-up to ask about the car and another stopped to take pictures .

My wife is over the moon about her Prelude and now that I have had some extended seat time so am I.

Anyone that doesn't like the new Prelude has never driven one.

Oh, and we averaged 50 mpg on regular gas. Five-zero. As opposed to less that half that on premium in the BRZ.

Sounds great! Presumably your 50 mpg is in US gallons?

The point you make about 'sports car versus GT' is a really good one. A pure sports car arguably only needs to do one one thing well: a fast lap time on a race track. And without having to worry too much about comfort, noise, dental surgery, luggage space, efficiency, ergonomics, fuel quality, spinal correction, ground clearance, etc.

Driven long distances on imperfect public roads at legal speeds, many seemingly desirable sports cars can quickly start to feel like an ill-judged set of compromises.

That said, I think everyone should drive what they like - and I like my new Prelude!

 

[PR76UDE43]

September 1st can't come quick enough, still waiting for mine :'(

 

[BlueTiger]

I made few acc tests on last April, launch mode using brake, flat street, zero wind, tank with 12lt inside, 69% of HV battery charge, outer air temp 12C, under bonnet air temp 30C.
G-Tech instrument for the 0-100kmh, Car Scanner Pro for 0-60mph and 0-100kmh for a confirmation.
Peoples do not trust, they insist with official 8.2"... the story is so simple: Prelude project is not racing/sporty as older versions... so is better to put the focus on different specs instead of acc time... and frankly speaking 0-xx is unuseful in the real life...

 

[Alfettaman47]

I made few acc tests on last April, launch mode using brake, flat street, zero wind, tank with 12lt inside, 69% of HV battery charge, outer air temp 12C, under bonnet air temp 30C.
G-Tech instrument for the 0-100kmh, Car Scanner Pro for 0-60mph and 0-100kmh for a confirmation.
Peoples do not trust, they insist with official 8.2"... the story is so simple: Prelude project is not racing/sporty as older versions... so is better to put the focus on different specs instead of acc time... and frankly speaking 0-xx is unuseful in the real life...
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I completely agree. Where did this global obsession with 0-60mph times come from? It plays almost no part in everyday driving on the road. Even in a circuit race you only do 0-60mph once!

 

[Liverfluke2]

Agreed.
And they only use the max power at the very top of the rev range. Torque is way more important to every day driving thrills.

there is a saying that people buy horsepower but drive ft.lbs.
It’s not a new saying, yet people are still focusing on the power, not the torque.

 

[Alfettaman47]

Agreed.
And they only use the max power at the very top of the rev range. Torque is way more important to every day driving thrills.

there is a saying that people buy horsepower but drive ft.lbs.
It’s not a new saying, yet people are still focusing on the power, not the torque.

Yes, maximum torque is probably a much more useful metric for a road car, and the shape of the torque curve matters too. Our Preludes develop maximum torque (315 Nm) from 0 rpm through to 2000+ rpm, making it really easy to access strong performance.

Other metrics that could be useful when comparing the real-world performance of different cars are maximum lateral acceleration (cornering force), and distance needed to brake from 60-0 mph...

 

[PR76UDE43]

If it helps the Prelude is far more fun and feels more thrilling during acceleration than the T8 455hp Volvo I used to have ever did, and I clocked that at 4.0s to 60mph. Amusingly I read an article recently that was talking about how the Prelude is much faster than the paper numbers say, doesn't really need a ton more power, wouldn't suit a manual, and really needs to be tried to appreciate. Of course, the comments were absolutely rammed with people saying it should have had the type R engine and needs a manual. People who also haven't driven it and didn't read the damn article of course...

 

[GoZoner6]

... G-Tech instrument for the 0-100kmh, Car Scanner Pro for 0-60mph and 0-100kmh for a confirmation.
Peoples do not trust, they insist with official 8.2"...

That is a nice setup. I've seen people post YouTube videos of their 0-60 mph and use a stop-watch as a timer - always they are way, way off. I've counted the video frames (usually YouTube is 30 fps, but each video shows the rate in the 'info') and commented on the video w/ the actual 0-60 mph time.

And then there was the very first 0-100 kph video from a guy in Japan that reported 9.2 - turned out he had traction control enabled and it was a rainy day...